Can a fairy-tale romance lead to a successful business partnership? Tengku Zatashah Sultan Sharafuddin Idris Shah, youngest daughter of the Sultan of Selangor, and her French husband Aubry Rahim Mennesson, believe it can. Going into business with your spouse is not for everyone, they say, but if you know what you’re getting yourself into and where you’re going, then the sky’s the limit, says Tengku Zatashah.
In this email interview, the couple, who were married in November last year and will be returning from Paris soon to launch a new business venture in Malaysia, share their thoughts and tips on working together.
What made you decide to go into business together? Is this something you’ve thought about for a long time?
Aubry: It came very naturally in our relationship. We have always been very committed to a professional life. Like most couples we used to share what happened at our respective workplace in the evening. With time, I realised that I had more constructive discussions with my wife than with my partners and that her character and business skills were what I was looking for outside.
Zatashah: It’s funny but we’ve always discussed and brainstormed together about business, ideas, strategies, interests, business leaders, politics, world events… and it became clear early on that we shared the same enthusiasm and enjoyed sharing our thoughts. Some couples talk about their children or gossip, we love talking shop. We realised that we shared the same vision of business so it was very natural to take this to the next level. Business isn’t merely an end goal — it’s the step towards a horizon full of possibilities.
Could you tell us a bit about the business venture — what kind of business, when you’re going to launch it, where, etcetera?
Z: It’s too soon to say but we can reveal that it’s in the leisure sector and we’ll be based in Malaysia. We decided that to launch a venture, you have to love what you do. And although we can’t divulge too much at this stage, our start-up is a passion that we share, it’s in an industry that is exciting, dynamic and young, where hopefully our consumers will also enjoy and share our passion.
A: My communication director said it all. I have nothing to add!
What kind of challenges do you think you’ll face in running a business together and working side-by-side?
A: There are great challenges ahead. In our situation, boundaries no longer exist; hence we have to be confident and strong in our relationship and in our business abilities. It is a complete commitment and a great adventure. I enjoy extreme sports because of the rush and adrenaline you get by doing things without a safety net. Working side by side together is the same feeling.
Z: The challenges will be like in any other business, whether working for a large corporation or start-up. What is advantageous for us is that we know and trust each other, which you can’t say 100% with another partner. Plus, where we differ from others is that together we share the same goals and have a common vision. I suppose what makes our partnership interesting is that we come from two different cultures and different languages, so we have to be very clear and precise in how we express ourselves because there are subtle nuances between English and French. Luckily, Aubry has always spoken English so it’s not a sudden departure for us to work in English together.
What do friends and family say — did they warn you about the pitfalls of going into business as husband and wife?
A: It is a hot topic! Reactions are very strong yet very different. Some find it incredulous that you can spend 24/7 of your time with your other half, others think you have reached the nirvana of couples where two become one, a fabulous entity from outer space…
The reality is very different from these two opinions.
Z: Everyone has been extremely supportive. Most admire us because they could never imagine working with their spouse! It’s true we have to be careful but there have been also many cases of success that inspire us, for example, the founders of Lonely Planet guide books, Maureen and Tony Wheeler; Cathy and David Guetta (French DJ) who run famous club events in Ibiza and France; Marithé and François Girbaud (famous French high-end fashion designers)…
On your blog, Aubry posted an article about the ‘Car Trip Acid Test’ (see sidebar). Tell us, did you both take the test before deciding to launch this venture?
A: No we didn’t. I created this test for our blog to show in a funny way that management ratios used in business can be applied for couples. This idea came from a weekend in the Loire Valley. It was a busy Friday evening traffic jam in Paris. I had booked a table and a room in a romantic chateau 2½ hours away. We had to be there on time if we didn’t want to lose both of our reservations, and I didn’t have a GPS in my car. Situation was critical; we could only count on our skills to be on time, stress wasn’t an option if we wanted to have a romantic and relaxing weekend as planned.
Z: Aubry cleverly came up with the CTAT for his blog post, which I found brilliant. It’s not an official test but it does definitely test the strength of a couple.
What was your CTAT ratio? Was there a lot of shouting, swearing and loss of temper or was it a smooth ride culminating in dinner at a nice restaurant in the countryside?
A: We succeeded greatly. I knew we had the capability to work as a team under some sort of pressure. The journey revealed a glimpse of what could be business with your loved one.
Z: Our car trips are always pretty smooth. After all, we’ve done so many car trips — if it was a nightmare, I would suggest taking a train! Aubry is actually a calm person but that doesn’t mean we don’t get lost, it just means we don’t end up with high blood pressure! In the end, we always find our way.
How far did you drive anyway? From where to where?
Z: Aubry has driven me all around France to sightsee, as it’s amazing by road. We’ve accumulated thousands of miles (eventually killing the car), travelling to Normandy, Loire Valley, Lyon, La Rochelle, and Provence and many other places, so I guess he was inspired with CTAT!
A: As a mixed couple, it’s important to show your other half where you come from, your culture, your country because it says a lot about your personality and behaviour. So it means a lot to me to share with Zatashah, France and the French culture in the same way she makes me discover Malaysia. We learn and understand each other much better this way.
What do you look forward to most about working together?
A: As we say, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I know I will learn a lot from my wife and our [being a] couple. Our venture is really a good mix of each other. I look forward to seeing how it is going to grow.
Z: I’m really looking forward to creating and developing ideas together and seeing them grow; combining our skill sets and strengths whilst learning and improving in other areas. We’re both growing on the same path and that’s incredible.
And what is your biggest fear/peeve about going into partnership and working with each other?
A: To kill the magic of our love story with too many numbers. But we have managed so far to find a balance that fits. I love this sort of life, because we both work in our passion.
Z: Fear is a negative connotation. I am optimistic but of course with everything in life, wherever there is change or the unknown, there is an element of apprehension.
Have you thought about how you’re going to divide up the tasks and responsibilities? According to individual strengths and capabilities?
A: Yes, it is key in doing business together. Strategic and management decisions have to be taken together, but operational tasks must be split, for the people who will be working with us, and our clients. A company needs clear and separate management to work correctly. Finance and accounting are more my domains; she is very good in marketing and communication.
Z: It’s happened very naturally but yes, when we know what each of our strengths and weaknesses are, tasks and responsibilities are naturally divided according to our skills and passion and this balances out.
If the both of you disagree, who will have the final say? Please give an example when you couldn’t agree.
A: Tough one! To be really honest, she will. I sometimes put too much on our plate. Zatashah is a very good planner; she knows what can realistically be done in the right amount of time. I don’t have any examples in mind, because so far we haven’t disagreed. Each decision comes after much discussion.
Z: He’d probably say me! But I’d disagree. How we solve an issue is very simple: we each explain our reasons and listen. It’s important to listen and view things objectively to come up with the right decision. Also to not be afraid to admit if you’ve been too hasty in an opinion. We have this French way called the Cartesian method (by René Descartes) of presenting an argument: thèse, antithèse, synthèse — which means you present the thesis (your point of view), antithesis (the contradictory arguments against your point of view) and then synthesis (the mix of both arguments, pros and cons, to arrive at the perfect conclusion). It’s why the French are so talented in debates!
What about bringing work home? How do you plan to set the boundary between work and home?
A: For me it is absolutely impossible to set boundaries; I don’t know how other people do. Work and home are completely mixed together. I’m afraid it is part of running a business with your wife.
Z: There are no boundaries, we just know instinctively when it’s a good time to discuss business… how can you set a boundary on something you enjoy and have a passion for?
Other than CTAT, what advice would you give for couples planning to go into partnership/business together?
A: Know where you are going. It is a serious path, with a lot to lose, professionally and emotionally. It must come from a strong decision together. Money must be part of the thinking as well. Can you afford to fail together? How would launching a business together affect your lifestyle? A working couple needs — maybe more than other couples — special breaks to treat each other after a hard week.
Z: Going into business with your life partner isn’t for everyone. But if you have the same passion and vision for making a business work, then the sky’s the limit. There might be moments of doubt, but that’s what is great about a husband-and-wife partnership, you share your worries as well as your enthusiasm — you are there to encourage each other. In business as in life, it’s advisable that you know what you’re getting yourself into.
What are your three tips to ensure the partnership works?
A: Total trust, compatibility, and commitment. To succeed, a partnership must above all come from the desire to work together, not only from a business purpose.
Z: Treat each other with respect, listen to one another, and encourage each other.
What are your three tips to ensure harmony at home?
A: Love, step back and a strong sense of humour, which is absolutely necessary in life.
Z: Enjoy the moments, be grateful for what you have, and always make the most of it.
Sidebar
The car trip acid test
| By Aubry Rahim Mennesson |
Launching and managing a successful business is like driving a car: You have to look ahead, control your gears, check your dashboard and also watch carefully what is happening behind in the rear view mirror.
To know if you could work with your life partner, I strongly suggest that you start with the Car Trip Acid Test (CTAT), a personal invention directly inspired by the Acid-Test Ratio, a stringent test that indicates whether a firm has enough short-term assets to cover its immediate liabilities without selling inventory.
Well, the CTAT works rather the same way: Hop in your car with your loved one, or borrow a car without a GPS, but just a map that you give to the passenger. Choose a destination to reach in a fair amount of time and hit the road (I would recommend choosing a nice hotel in the countryside with a restaurant for a romantic dinner if you succeed).
One is responsible for the driving, the other one for the navigation. (Please don’t be automatically “macho”, women can drive, except for my wife.)
When you reach your destination, calculate your CTAT by:
(Number of times of shouting + swearing + loss of temper)
Miles driven
Couples with a CTAT ratio close to one should immediately forget the idea of launching a business together. More seriously, this test is very good training for what business with your life partner will look like. Do you often lose your temper, do you trust him/her, is your team complementary, and how do you naturally organise the tasks to be done?
Step back and take an objective perspective of your behaviours in the stressful moments of life. Trust me, you will get a fair image of the daily routine of partners working together in a venture.
The term acid test comes from the way gold miners would test whether their findings were real gold nuggets. Unlike other metals, gold does not corrode in acid; if the nugget didn’t dissolve when submerged in acid, it was said to have passed the acid test.
If you as a couple pass this figurative acid test, well done, you’re on the path of a great and successful partnership.
This article was posted on Feb 1, 2009 on Tengku Zatashah and Aubry’s blog http://frogandprincess.wordpress.com
Both the interview and the sidebar appeared in the Feb 23, 2009 issue of Manager@Work, the monthly management pullout of The Edge Malaysia.